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Part 4 Grouping Draft 2

Page history last edited by suifaijohnmak 15 years, 2 months ago

I'm not sure if we are going ahead with this approach or not. We really need Roy, to explain how he thinks his ideas mesh with the work we have already done. If they don't, then I think we have 2 research projects - Roy's longitudinal investigation (which I think could yield some very interesting and valuable results) and the in-depth investigation into the differences between bloggers and forum posters on the CCK08 course. I think the point about this research is that I suspect that there are not many, if any, courses that offer students the choice of where to communicate - so CCK08 provides us with a real opportunity to explore the reasons behind those choices, which could then inform online course design.


Whilst waiting for Roy's questions, I thought I would have a go at writing the statements to go with Matthias' comprehensive analysis of what might affect bloggers' and forum users' choices. So here are my thoughts below, which I'm prepared for us not to use at all if we decide to take a different approach. I have numbered them, so that you can see where the statements come from. You will see that where I think that the statements would overlap, I have combined them into one. You may not agree - so please add, edit or delete as you think necessary. And I'm also sure that there will be things that you have all said that I have not understood, so please do correct errors.


I see these statements as being accompanied by a Likert Scale of Strongly Disagree to Strongly Agree (as posted by John), but I think there should also be a N/A (non applicable) category for those people who for one reason or another cannot answer the question. Here are the statements.


Jenny, what a huge amount of work it was to put this jigsaw puzzle together ! I reget now very much that I failed to copy the text with the numbers. So it was much more difficult to retain the sense of all the merged statements. Additionally, I discovered errors that I made long ago that unfortunately caused confusion, which I will indicate below.

Therefore I will at least mention each substantial change to ask if it was intentional or just my confusion.


2009-03-17 Trying to add subtopic headings again, see map.


(2009-03-19 integrated Roy's items 31 through 96)


Technology (all statements relate to the CCK08 course)


T1 Ease of posting / Technical expertise / Familiarity with the technology / Speed of accessibility  


T001 I chose to communicate in the Moodle forums rather than through blogs, because I was already familiar with forums (T1, 42, 109)

  • I misnumbered the old #59 as #69 "I was already familiar with posting to discussion forums".
  • 43  I was already familiar with blogging (= old 42)
  • 79  I was already familiar with posting to discussion forums (= old 42)


T002 I didn’t have the time to organise a blog for the CCK08 course (T1, 124, 2)

  • The old #2 "Posting to the CCK08 Moodle[J4] forum required less effort than posting to a blog" referred to the ease of individual postings rather than establishing the blog as a whole. (JM 180309 - but 124 is about the whole blog - do you want to spearate out these two points?)
    • Sorry, Jenny, that I could not yet answer your substantial feedback because I first had to help avoid the impending chaos emerging from two diverging versions.
    • MM190309 (Ok, finally turning to the content.)

      I would not mind dropping either aspect, I just wanted to make sure that we are aware that there is a difference. For this "technical > familiar" cluster of questions, I think we should tease out the inclination to blog or moodle at any given moment, which would explain the tendency to choose the common denominator default (forum) even if both options are familiar and available. i. e., on the posting level, old #2. (The blog setup aspect old #124 lends itself to the second, longitudinal project).

  • 65  Posting to the forums required less effort than posting to a blog. (= old 2)


T003 Blogging requires more effort than I wanted to make in the CCK08 course (T1, 71)

  • 80  Blogging requires more effort than I wanted to make (cf old 71)


T004 The Moodle forum discussions were more easily accessible than the blog discussions (T1, 70)


T005 It was quicker to access recently discussed aspects and ideas of the course in the Moodle forums than in the blogs (T1, 19)


T2 Number of possible connections


T006 Moodle forum participation enabled connection with a greater number of people than blogging (T2, 75)

  • 59  I was able to make more meaningful connections with a greater number of people in the blogs (cf old 75)
  • 87  I was able to connect with a greater number of people in the Moodle forums (cf old 75)


T007 Moodle forum participation ensured more readers of my posts than blogging (T2, 77)

  • 85  I had a greater number of readers in the Moodle forums than I would have had on a blog (cf old 77)


T008 The Moodle forums offered a more efficient way of connecting with other course participants than blogging (T2, 121)


T009 I was more likely to receive responses to my posts in the Moodle forums than in a blog (T2, 81)


T010 I was more likely to receive feedback on my opinions in the Moodle forums than in a blog (T2, 123)


[T yet unassigned] 


T011 I can find out more about the author of a post in a blog than in a Moodle forum (C2, 25)


Personal Connections (all statements relate to the CCK08 course)


P1 Sense of community /  Inclusive/exclusive relationships / Proximity/closeness


P001 It was easier to form connections with other course participants in the Moodle forums than in the blogs (P1, 13)

  • 71  It was easier to form relationships with other course participants in the CCK08 forums than in the CCK08 blogs (= old 13)


P002 There was a greater sense of community between the Moodle forum participants than between bloggers (P1, 6, 76)

  • The old #76 "I felt more of a sense of community in the Moodle forums" included "felt" rather than "was". (JM 180309 I changed this because I thougth 'felt' was a rather subjective word and wasn'tsure whether it would lead to reliable results)
    • MM190309: Regarding subjective/ judgement/ "leading questions" phrasing: I think with our Likert agreement level approach, we need not avoid such statements, or did I miss the point about leading questions? In the warning you quoted in your Judith Bell citation in Part 4: questionnaire, the leading question is "Do you agree that...". We will ask how strong the agreement is, and I think we should tailor the statement that strong agreement is most possible. I think this is legitimate as long as we offer the opposite, equally pronounced statement, and if the choice does not exclude hidden third options (as is the case in C001 which John criticized). 
  • 34  There was a greater sense of community between CCK08 bloggers than between forum participants CCK08 (Cf old 6)
  • 67  There was a greater sense of community between forum participants than between bloggers (cf. old 6)
  • 72  There was a greater sense of community between CCK08 forum participants than between CCK08 bloggers (= old 6, Roy, whar is the intention of contrasting your 67 and 72 ?)
  • 84  I felt more of a sense of community in the Moodle forums (= old 76)


P003 I did not feel connected to the Moodle forum participants (P1, 49) 


P004 I felt closer to other course participants in the Moodle forums than in the blogs (P1, 111; P2, 8, 14, 103)

  • Here is a big mistake of mine, that I lumped together Jenny's old subtopics "Proximity/closeness" with "Strength of relationships" (like #103), rather than with "Sense of community". So, the crucial difference between "closer" (Moodle's advantage) and "deeper" (blogs' advantage) was lost. P005 below does not cover the strength when it focusses on duration. (JM 180309 - would you like to write some statements that you think exemplify this crucial difference? I think I know what you mean, but I'm not sure what changes you would like making)
    • MM190309 If I wrote a new statement myself it would hardly be clearer than your old #8 and #14 :-) These should just be kept separate, unlike 103 which confused them. If one of our central hypotheses is that moodlers' connections are closer (of similar medium strength but with spatial and temporal connotations) while bloggers' connections are initially weak and distant and gradually strengthening, then much verbal power is needed to make the right respondents agree strongly with the right answer.
  • 68  Relationships between the CCK08 Moodle forum participants were stronger than between CCK08 bloggers (= old 8)


P2 Strength of relationships (??)


P005 Connections between the bloggers were longer lasting than between Moodle forum participants (P2, 15, 48, 103, 141)

  • 35  It was harder to form relationships that lasted beyond the end of the course in the CCK08 forums than it was in the CCK08 blogs = superseded old #15 I'm not sure that this one fits here


P3 Tone of communication / Establishing presence/voice


P006 The blogging community was more friendly than the Moodle forum community (P3, 43)


P007 There was a greater sense of mutual respect between bloggers (P3, 44, 7, 105)

  • 31 There was less mutual respect between the CCK08 forum participants than between the CCK08 bloggers could we drop the CCK08?)


  • 44  There was more mutual respect between CCK08 bloggers than in the Moodle forums (= old 44)


P008 The Moodle forums generated greater feelings of anxiety than blogging (P3, 11, 47)

  • 33  Posting to the CCK08 Moodle forums generated greater feelings of anxiety than posting to a CCK08 blog (cf old 11)
  • 47  I felt less anxious when blogging than when posting to the Moodle forums (cf old 47)


P009 Bloggers are less likely to be criticised than Moodle forum participants (P3, 45, 97)

  • The "disparaging" from the old #97 "There are fewer disparaging comments" is dropped. (JM 180309 - I thought 'to be criticised' might also cover 'disparaging comments'. I was trying to keep the number of statements to a minimum if possible)
    • MM190309 If criticised is clearer than disparaging, I withdraw my remark.
  • 45  I was less likely to be heavily criticised on my blog (= old 45)
  • 45 (rev 1) I was less likely to be criticised on my blog (=old 45) (drop heavily?) (As criticism could be perceived as constructive ---neutral ---- destructive continuim, are you referring to the destructive criticism when the emphasis is "heavily criticised"?  Or do you think it's better to retain "heavily criticised"?  

P010 I could not make my ‘voice’ heard in the Moodle forums (P3 66)

  • 56  I could not make my voice heard in the Moodle forum discussions (= old 66)


P011 I was able to establish a presence in the Moodle forums (P3, 88, 89)

  • 91  I was able to establish a presence in the Moodle forums (= old 88) 


P012 The Moodle forums attract participants who like to pontificate (P3, 106)

  • Compared to the old #106 "There is less posturing and pontification", it sounds now more like an persistent property of the people rather than an emerging effect. Is this meant? (JM 180309 - yes I agree that this is not quite right. My concern with the original statement was that implied a value judgement - which I was trying to avoid)
    • MM190309 See my thoughts on judgements and the like above at P002.


P013 Blogging ensured that my ‘voice’ was heard (P3, 57)

  • 51  Blogging allowed me to have a voice on the CCK08 course (= old 57)


P4 Sparring/ Challenge


P014 The Moodle forum discussions were more challenging than discussions in the blogs (P4, 73, 116)

  • I liked the "sparring" notion of the old #116 "There is more sparring/challenge" because this connotates also a personal relationships and interaction aspect while challenge sounds more content-related to me. (JM 180309 - yes on reflection I agree. Maybe we need two separate statements)
    • MM190309 I could live without the "challenge" (quality) aspect which is problematic anyway (see the many dropped and resurrected items from # 60 below onwards.)
  • 82  I enjoyed the challenging discussion that took place in the Moodle forums (= old 73)
  • 94  There is more sparring/challenge (= old 116)


P015 There was more lively debate in the Moodle forums than in the blogs (P4, 74)

  • 83  There was more lively debate in the Moodle forums (= old 74)


P016 The Moodle forum discussions generated greater feelings of excitement than the blogs (P4, 10)

  • 70  Posting to the CCK09 Moodle forums generated greater feelings of excitement than posting to a CCK08 blog (= old 10)


[P yet unassigned]


P017 It is important to know something about the author of a post (C2, 25)



Conceptual Connections (all statements relate to the CCK08 course)


  • This is probably the hardest chapter, and I am sorry that I did not even try to fill my placeholders "plus something from the discussion Part 4 Draft 4". Particularly the diversity/ divergence aspect is difficult to accommodate, since both camps are claiming it.

    I think the opposite of the bloggers' trait of associating and linking and following distractions, is not just "focus". And moodlers, too, meander and succumb to distractions. But still, the difference is consistently perceivable, just hard to phrase. Forum lovers, in a way, content themselves in mentioning and shortly addressing the diverse aspects, to get their big picture round and delineated. We bloggers, in contrast, love to pick selected diverse aspects to follow them intensively, to grow the connections. The connections are addressed in C008 but the link to diversity is missing. (JM 180309 - yes this bit was hard)



C1 Location of ideas


C001 I preferred the Moodle forums to blogging because all the ideas being discussed were located in one place (C1, 17, 18)

  • 36 It's not very important for me that in forums, all the relevant aspects and ideas are collected in one place. = old 18; I think this one needs rephrasing - but I'll need to come back to it  
  • 73  I find it more convenient in forums that all the relevant aspects and ideas are collected in one place = old 17


C002 I preferred the linear discussion style of the Moodle forums than the dispersed discussion style of blogs (C1, 78)

  • Is non-linear the same as dispersed, non-centralized? (JM 180309 - I'm not sure - would you like to write some alternative statements)
    • MM190309 Of course I am not able to write a clearer statement than yours but I think the two should be separated. I think John is right that this is a leading question: If we lead the respondents to believe that there is no third alternative. Typical leftbrained advocates of tree-like, hierarchical structures would certainly deny the linear impression of the forum with its tree-like sub-threads, but others tend to lump together both such merely comPLICATED  structures in contrast to comPLEX, network structures.  And once separated, the "dispersed" aspect could be combined with other spatial connection aspects to prune. 
  • 58  I preferred the linear style of blogs (= old 78) Is this statement accurate?
  • 86  I preferred the linear style of the Moodle forum discussions (= old 78)


C003 It was easier to locate information in the Moodle forums than in the blogs (C1, 85)

  • The old #85 "It was easier to track back and locate information in the Moodle forums" made it more believable that information needs to be located (track it back later) (JM 180309 - OK lets change this one back)  Done.
  • 90 

It was easier to track back and locate information in the Moodle forums (= old 85)


C2 Diversity of discussion/ideas / Convergence/divergence  


C004 It was easier to discuss numerous related topics concurrently in Moodle forums than in the blogs (C2, 24)

  • Is concurrently the same as rapidly sequenced with previous topics closeby in mind? "Concurrent" might be mistaken as talking past each other like in the elluminate backchannel, or in Twitter. (If this is called "simultaneous" rather than concurrent, please ignore this remark.)  (JM 180309 - I wasn't sure how to phrase this one - do you want to have a go at it?)
    • MM190309 "In immediate succession" ??? I cannot find apposite catchy phrasing, sorry :-(. I can only describe what I mean, and this is a temporal closeness which may eventually leverage neuronal preactivation patterns, and which also aligns with the spatial closeness connotation that is our recurring theme both on the conceptual and the personal level (uniformly close vs. strengthening). If this does not resonate with you, at all, I am lost.
  • 76  I am fascinated that forums discussions rapidly connect to more aspects would topics be a better word/ while the previous aspects are still lively present in mind (needs re-phrasing?) = old 24, yes, of course, please re-phrase!
    • MM190309: Aspects vs. topics: If aspects is not bumpy English, I think it better expresses the connectivist approach in Stephen's sense. Consider his notorious "Paris is the capital of France" assertion. If you are approaching Paris from Orleans, you are regarding the connection (road) from Orleans, and your Paris view starts when you are passing Porte d'Orleans railway station (or previously, the old town portal on the Roman route, but maybe I mixed it all up with Lyon or Gare d'Austerlitz). This is the aspect. In contrast, when you look up Paris on a World map, you see it as an object, without connections on tis level. Then it is a topic. Does that make sense?


C005 Discussion in the Moodle forums was more focussed and topic related than in the blogs (C2, 22)


C006 The links included in blog posts make it difficult to keep focussed on the course topic being discussed (C2, 23)

  • 37  I don't want to be distracted by ever more links (= old 23) I'm not sure that this one fits here
  • 75  I don't want to be distracted by ever more links (= old 23)


C007 It is important to me to know something about the author of an online post (C2, 25) 


  • The author and the background, as indicated by their other postings and concepts. And not only know about her (via the moodle profile) but explore it. (JM 180309 - again - difficult to get all this into one statement - do you want to have a go?)
    • MM190309 I would revert "know" to "explore", and split up as you recommended to Roy's  38 & 77 below. We could drop T011 and P017 for compensation. The author part would become Pxxx while the background part would stay here at C007 ?
  • 38  When new aspects and ideas come up, I like to explore their source and author, and sometimes they resonate with me when I learn more about their background (= old 25) This statement may need splitting - it has two parts
    • MM190309 Agreed, se above C007.
  • 77  When new aspects and ideas come up, I like to explore their source and author, and sometimes they resonate with me when I learn more about their background (= old 25) see comment above


C3 Speed of conversation / Pace


[nothing left]


[C yet unassigned]


C008 Moodle forums enable the formation of increasingly strong conceptual connections, more than blogs

  • Is this intentional meant as provocative, triangulative question? I assumed it the other way around. (JM 180309 - shall we have it the other way round then?)
    • MM190309 Definitely. Doesn't that make sense to you? If not, could you pick one of my attempts to distinguish the conceptual connections in forums/blogs and specify what is not plausible? If you really think that blog connections are more personal while forums connections are more conceptual, then we really disagree. I think both personal and conceptual connecions differ similarly (i. e. uniformly close vs. gradually strengthening). 


Learning (all statements relate to the CCK08 course)



[Yet unassigned]


L001 The pace of communication in the Moodle forums was too fast for effective learning (C3, 72, 3, 110; L2, 28)

  • The whole C1 section ("Conceptual connections" > "Speed of conversation") seems to be dissolved among L Learning > Pace. So the positive learning effect to bloggers puts in the background the preference/ comfort aspect (how moodlers like their sparring rapid-fire pace, how bloggers like their slowness).  (JM 180309 - I'm not absolutely sure what you mean here. Could you provide some statements to exemplify this?)
    • If we are exploring the preference for, or persistent inclination towards, blogs or forums rather than a situational or ability or advisability or goal-directed reasons, it is IMHO more appropriate to consider the liking/ enjoying (old 72 below) than the effectivity aspect and learning success. Originally, you had three subtopics for speed and pace. The technical one has dissolved in the "ease" topic. The learning one focusses on the effectivity of learning. (There is also a personal one which is IMHO akin to rapid-fire, sparring). What remains here under "C", is what you called "Speed of conversation" which would align with the temporal closeness that is crucial for the central hypthesis. 

      Speed in technical terms is how quickly I can blog (because it's easy). Speed in terms of Learning is my own inner clock and pace that optimizes my learning outcome; this has nothing to do with connections among people and nothing with connections among concepts (at the most, it has something to do with the connection betwen my person and a concept to learn). Speed in personal connection terms, is what I wanted to cluster with the enjoyment of rapid interaction (I don't know a better word than sparring). Speed in terms of conceptual connections is the timeframe of the succession of topics, which may leverage preactivation, and which is a trade-off for slowness needed for reflection. I doubt if that was clearer ... 

  • 40  The CCK08 forum discussions were so fast that they prohibited reflection (= old 28)
  • 66  Posting to the forums enabled faster response and communication than a blog. (= old 3)
  • 81  I enjoyed the fast pace of the Moodle forums (= old 72)


L002 Blogging allowed participants to engage with the course at their own pace (C3, 52, 54)

  • 49  I could work at my own pace (= old 52) 
  • 50  I liked the ‘slowness’ of blogging (= old 54)


L1 Autonomy/control / Self-expression / Freedom of choice / Ownership


L003 The Moodle forums were more teacher-centric than the blogs (L1, 33)

  • 41  The CCK08 discussion forums were more teacher-controlled than the CCK08 blogs (old 33)


L004 There were fewer opportunities for self-expression in the Moodle forums than in the blogs (L1, 34, 56, 55)

  • 42  There are fewer opportunities for self- expression in forums (= old 56) 


L005 Blogging allowed for greater personal control over learning than the Moodle forums (L1, 50, 51, 59, 60, 61, 62, 107)

  • 48  Blogging allowed me more control over my own learning (= old 50) 
  • 53  Blogging allowed me more personal space (= old 59 mislabeled as 69)
  • 64  There is a greater sense of freedom and autonomy (Based on old 61, 62, 107) Can freedom and autonomy be put together in one statement?


L2 Reflection/Action / Theorist/Pragmatist


L006 The forum discussions were less reflective than the blog discussions (L2, 27)

  • 39  The CCK08 forum discussions were less reflective than the CCK08 blog discussions  


L007 There was less time for reflection in the forum discussions than in the blog discussions (L2, 29, 53)


L008 (2007-03-017 Maybe John's  151-188 are missing because I linked them in very late?) (JM 180309 - sorry about this John. I'm not sure where these are now? I thought  I had covered everything.)

  • I linked them in Part4Grouping under L2. If it is not intentionally dropped, they shall be L008 here.


Previously dropped items reclaimed by Roy


32 The CCK08 Moodle forum posts elicited stronger emotions than the CCK08 blog posts

= old 9 dropped because the unspecific "Emotions" heading did not seem not allow an interpretation as pro bloger or pro moodler.


52  Writing for my blog gave me more pleasure than writing in the Moodle discussion forums = old 58 dropped like 32 = old 9 above.


78  Writing my forum posts gave me more pleasure than writing in blogs = old 58 dropped like 32 = old 9 above.


54  I found it easier to understand the CCK08 blog posts than the Moodle forum posts = old 63 dropped because ambiguous whether Technical > Aggregation or Learning > challenge.


55  I didn’t feel I had anything to contribute to the Moodle forum discussions = old 65 dropped because ambiguous whether Personal > Incl/excl relationships or Learning > Audience/ Feedback.


57  The CCk08 bloggers often provided summaries of the weekly topics and this helped my learning = old 67 dropped because amibiguous if Personal > collaboration or Technical > Aggregation


92  I was able to make a greater contributions to the Moodle forums = old 90 dropped because anbiguous whether Conceptual > Quality (discarded anyway) or Learning > Audience/Feedback


60  The quality of posts in the blogs was higher than in the forums = old 82 dropped due to longer discussion about quality, see the Cmap ConcConnREfined.jpg


63  There is more crafting of writing = old 104 dropped like above quality item.


89  The quality of posts in the Moodle forums was higher than on the blogs = old 82 dropped like above quality item.


88  There was more knowledge creation in the Moodle forums = old 80 dropped like above quality item.


95  There is less ‘navel gazing’ = old 86 dropped like above quality item. are there any cultural issues with this statement?


46  I could avoid the ‘loud forum voices’ = old 46 dropped by Jenny


62  There is greater opportunity for self-assessment = old 102 droppped by Jenny


74  I am excited when people bring lots of obviously related aspects to the table = old 21 dropped by Jenny


96  I don't want to be urged to follow the author through his linear assembly of digressions. (= old 132 dropped by Jenny) will this statement be understood

  • MM190309 I would be content if you understand it and rephrase it for the end users!
  • This is a leading questions -  When one is urged to follow the author....we might have already presumed that one doesn't want to follow - a subjective statement based on a refusal to follow the author, the reason is that the author has digressed and wished to urge the reader to follow.  How about: I prefer not to follow digressions in threads in forum discussion over blogs discussion.  This focuses on the blogger or Moodler's preference over what to follow rather than "criticising the author's digression" Does it sound ok? Is it what you mean?
  • Thanks for advising me that this might be understood very differently than I thought. I did not mean to claim that the author intends coercion on the reader. But as a reader i feel urged. I wrote this statement because it is one that I, as a blogger, would strongly agree with (7 points) because it is one of the major issues that I have with forums: While on blogs, I am free to pick which one of the explicit links and thought connections I want to follow, there is the assumption on forums that I know everything that has been said before (implicit connections from the recent postings), and so I cannot skip and skim but need to squeeze myself through this linear tunnel of the thread. And if an author likes digressions, I feel being urged to follow him on his meandering travels, while on blogs I voluntarily sail with selected travellers even longer journeys, so to speak.

    So, it IS in fact a leading question when it is mistakably phrased. But once it optimally expresses what a respondent (like myself) might think, isn't it a legitimate "I" question of the type John mentioned in his comments below? Maybe I have still not got the "leading questions" concept but I think we should try for maximum 7-point agreements and disagreements to test our hypotheses, no? 

  • Thanks for the clarification.  Would it be OK to split this into three statements?  I prefer the explicit links of blogs.  I prefer the thought connections of blogs.  I prefer blogs when I found digressions in discussion.  But these could be "blog' biasing.  It is difficult to start with "I prefer not to"

  • I think leading question occurs when we use a "qualifier or strong feeling verb" like urge - which means someone wanting to convince or influence you, followed by someone's action.  The use of a neutral verb like ask could be used instead.  In the above case, you have explained your choice mainly because you don't want to be squeezed into linear tunnel of the thread in forum (as you have to read and digest all other threads to take them into account in your response).  This may not be the case for blog discussion, as you think you are just answerable to the author who created the post, and not to others who responded to the blog post.  These reasons might be better revealed in an interview or survey with MULTIPLE choice questions, rather than a statement of choice (normally only 1 preference over the other on 1 topic), so you could know the reason of that preference. 


61  Blogs are more distributed, among different people and different opinions, and don’t tend to force consensus.  Based on old 93 They are more distributed dropped by Jenny.


93  Forums are more like a conversation (Related to old 4 "It was easier to follow a CCK08 Moodle forum thread than a blog conversation" assigned to Technical > Aggregation which was dropped because it did not seem to allow a significant matching to either pro blogger or pro moodler (see very first Cmap questionnaire.jpg).




Comments (11)

Jenny Mackness said

at 11:53 pm on Mar 16, 2009

I hate the fact that you can't copy and paste from Word without all the formatting changing - and that every time you edit (however small) you get an email!

suifaijohnmak said

at 9:03 am on Mar 17, 2009

C002 I preferred the linear discussion style of the Moodle forums than the dispersed discussion style of blogs (C1, 78)
I think this is a leading question: It presumes that Moodle forums have linear discussion style and Blogs have a dispersed discussion style, and that the respondent's preference is based on such presumption, which may not be true. Also a person may prefer the Moodle style of discussion over Blog due not simply as to the linearity (which is subjective) over diversity only.
How about splitting of this into 3 statements?
C002 (rev1)
I like the linear style of discussion in Moodle discussion
I like the diversed style of discussion in Blogging
I prefer Moodle style of discussion over Blog style of discussion
However, there may be reasons other than the linear or diversed style of discussion when I state I prefer Moodle style of discussion over Blog style of discussion.- e.g. individual learning styles - activist, reflective, theorists, and pragmatists etc. So the last statement needs more qualifications. What do you think?

Jenny Mackness said

at 2:14 am on Mar 19, 2009

Thanks John for these comments. You are right. We do need to guard against leading questions. I think we should go through all the statements now with this critical thinking approach - and add the changes we think should be made. I think it is all coming together now :-)

suifaijohnmak said

at 12:24 am on Mar 20, 2009

I think there are 3 categories of statement that we formulate for the respondent to agree or disagree:
1. The "I" statements which the respondent is stating his/her preferences, feelings, thinking, perceptions e.g. I did not feel connected to the Moodle forum participants (P1, 49). This may not be generalised individually, but when analysed statistically as samples, could generalise the pattern - e.g. 60% of respondents with a 5 point, 20% with a 4 point etc. and an average score of 3.5 etc.
2. The "general - induction " statements which the respondent would generalise from his/her thinking, characteristics, perceptions e.g. The quality of posts in the blogs was higher than in the forums, The forum discussions were less reflective than the blog discussions. These statements may be a combination of the "I" and the "I" projection statements
3. The "general - deduction" statements which the respondent would be based on what the respondents have observed and experienced and he/she would use the "Voice of Crowds" of research findings to project back to the individual's perception - the "we think one is thinking" - or the objective view. e.g. The Moodle forums were more teacher-centric than the blogs (This is nearly always the case, as the teacher has less control over the blogger's blogs, but could exercise more control (power) over participants in the Moodle forum).
I would also suggest to consider all of these from A GENETIC POINT OF VIEW. This is an analogy, indicating that there are genes in the cells which will decide on the "behaviour" and "characteristics" of the cells.
So, in all three sorts of statements, the genes that play a part may be different "pairs" of genes, but would decide the way learning takes place. John 19/03/2009

suifaijohnmak said

at 12:24 am on Mar 20, 2009

In summary,
(1) the "I" or first type will decide the personal preference,
(2) the "general - induction" or second type will decide on the projection (I perception/thinking that could respresent the world's perception/thinking), this is based on learning through formal education, informal learning, group interaction, or this connectivist learning approach. The "divergent" view - learning via navigation over divergent views
(3) the "general - deduction" or third type is based on logical deduction (or the reductionist approach to some extent?). This is based on learning through scientific means, research findings, consolidation of scientific research and aggregation of ICT - technology affordance. The "convergent" view - learning via collectives, technology affordance.
These are just my first thoughts, and must be refined, critiqued. Would this shed light in our structuring of these statements and shed light on those conceptual mapping? Or will this cause confusion? Matthias: please advise.
Have you thought of the GENETIC orientation of learning? I borrowed that from the 'SELFISH GENES" and "MEMES" but I have to be cautious NOT to divert our attention too much from this research. This research may be able to provide new insights into this area by combining the connections with genetic origins. As I have always think - we know the connections (pipe) is happening, - that explain the HOWs, but the genetic origins could explain the WHYs.
My metaphor on digestive system stems from our genetic origins. The technology affordance (as enzymes or catalyst) could also have its genetic origin (by tracing back to the need of communication, socialisation, literacy and language development, and the cultural shifts, modernisation based on industrialisation and economy etc.) Please note that these are the mega - trend but they do explain WHY we need to learn.
John 19/03/2009

x28de said

at 12:46 am on Mar 20, 2009

John, great classification of statement types, which I will have to re-read once I finished replying to all the "JM 180309" questions - and trying to get some day job wotk done.

suifaijohnmak said

at 12:48 am on Mar 20, 2009

A genetic origin mapping which traces the history of networking and linkage with industrialiation, modernization, globalisation, community building and development, financial and economic development (the current financial crisis!) which leads to the current "internet - digital - technology blended with learning and education for individuals and masses or "INTERNETISATION "- a word that I intend to invent! You won't find it from the dictionary! :-)"will clearly illustrates HOW and WHY of the education system and learning movement is transforming. The impact of these is yet to be felt.
John 19/03/2009

x28de said

at 3:43 am on Mar 20, 2009

Thanks for the stimulating thoughts that make our neurons firing and the big picture expanding ever more.

On the difference between your second and third type, I must let it simmer a while and sink in, especially the divegent/ convergent thing that showed as tough before.

The first type, however, is immediately applicable: When we want to explore preferences, the "I" perspective seems useful for many questions. Thanks for reminding us that we nevertheless need to watch out for statements where this subjective perspective might be inappropriate, as I will comment at 96 (= old 132) above.

suifaijohnmak said

at 9:16 am on Mar 20, 2009

Another way of looking into these statements (or learning) is the consideration of EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE (Sterret, E. The Manager's Pocket Guide to Emotional Intelligence 2000)
Emotional intelligence has been broken down into 6 areas:
Self Dimension of Emotional Intelligence (form our understanding and acceptance of ourselves - the I statements normally apply)
1. Knowledge = Self Awareness
2. Attitude = Self-Confidence
3. Behavior = Self-Control
Social Dimension of Emotional Intelligence (have to do with the experence and interactions with others - our social relationships: (these could be partly reflected in the induction/deduction type of statements as a result of social relationships or interactions and learning)
4. Knowledge = Empathy
5. Attitude = Motivation
6. Behaviour = Social Competency
We could add the Social Intelligence here too.
Another way of looking at the statements-flow (i.e. the whole process of learning as structured in the conceptual mapping in say bloggers) could be based on 8 hats thinking that I suggested in the thinking process - the metacognition - thinking how to think, with sense-making (meta-learning), and learning how to learn (individually and collectively to be an educated person under MASS education or as COMMUNITY education), the ontology (learning to be) concept. See my post: http;//suifaijohnmak.wordpress.com/2009/02/20/transormational-thinking-additional-hats-to-thinking/ for the 8 hats, and the transformational thinking which outlines HOW a learner in blogs may employ those 8 hats - information search, critical and reflective thinking (logical, rational , objective thinking), control of emotions, systems and lateral thinking, and creative thinking, practical thinking and my suggested 2 hats - colourless - spiritual/supernatural thinking - relatedness to nature, and purple hat thinking on personal identity and conscience John 20/03/09

suifaijohnmak said

at 9:18 am on Mar 20, 2009

Purple hat refers to personal or digital identity, our conscience - thinking about oneself in terms of personal and civil rights, and obligations as a digital citizen, "well being" or thinking of legal judgments based on one's conscience
For the Transformational thinking, my blog http;//suifaijohnmak.wordpress.com/2009/02/20/transormational-thinking-additional-hats-to-thinking/
John 20/03/09 Comments?

suifaijohnmak said

at 4:19 pm on Mar 20, 2009

Please see an article that relate to: More Evidence that Intelligence is Inherited.

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